Big three bailout gets big thumbs down in poll, prediction market

The CEOs of General Motors, Ford and Chrysler, which are seeking a combined $34 billion in loans and credit lines to make it through the financial storm, are again getting grilled in front of Congress.

Call it a bailout. Call it a bridge loan. Either way, a lot of Americans don't want to help the automakers out.
Big Three on the grillBig Three on the grill
A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey on Monday and Tuesday found that 61 percent of respondents are against the loans, while 36 percent support them. Moreover, 53 percent said they don't believe that aiding the automakers would help the broader economy.

There was little regional variation in the poll. Opposition in the West was highest, with 67 percent against the loans. Even in the Midwest, where many auto jobs are located, respondents were 53 percent opposed.

The opposition also crossed the political spectrum. Seventy percent of Republicans are were opposed, followed by 62 percent of independents and 55 percent of Democrats.

Here at Dollars & Sense, we don't put all that much stock in the predictive power of polls. We have a weird habit of following futures prediction markets such as Intrade.

But even there, things look politically problematic for the automakers.

At midday, the Intrade prediction market has the chances of Congress approving more than $20 billion in aid to automakers this month pegged at 33.9 percent - basically a one in three chance.

The polls and prediction markets are reflections of deep-rooted skepticism of the nation's Big Three automakers and the United Auto Workers. We get that.

What we continue to marvel at, though, is how much this country's knickers are in a twist over $34 billion in aid to a major manufacturing industry that directly and indirectly employs millions of Americans.

By way of context, the feds already have committed to more than $7 trillion in direct bailouts and various other contingent obligations to pull the economy out of recession. Moreover, much of that money is going toward a financial industry that was the great enabler of this economic calamity. And Wall Street's pinstriped masters of the universe didn't go through the kind of grilling the auto execs are getting.

Now, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department are even talking about flooding the mortgage security market with money, pushing mortgage rates so low we'll be almost compelled to refinance our houses. And we aren't even driving our cars to Washington D.C. to ask for the help.

Bottom line: The cost of the Big Three bailout is little more than a rounding error in the great scheme of things. The automakers and their workers face massive restructuring even if they get the federal aid. And yet the general public seems almost determined to see them fail and tumble into bankruptcy court.

The economic reverberations of Big Three bankruptcies will be felt by far more than just the families of about 7,000 workers at Kansas City's two big auto plants.

What gives?

Submitted by Chris Lester on December 4, 2008 - 1:22pm.
| | add new comment
Submitted by Anonymous on May 13, 2009 - 3:52pm.

Hey. Dance is the hidden language of the soul.
I am from Liberia and now study English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Infos ber avtovaz usr, profil, aktien, aktienkurse und mehr.Today deals it turned out he doesn even control avtovaz that was widely believed to be his."

Regards :P Zaki.

Submitted by Anonymous on December 12, 2008 - 12:46pm.

Okay, let's say we give the big 3 the money that need to stay viable (short term) while they hope and pray that they will once again be back on top.

6 months from now, let's say the big 3 are still failing. Should we give them more money?

A year from now, should we give them even more money to help them survive? Where does it stop? This is ridiculous. They big 3 need to take responsibilty for their actions.

In response to some of the posts regarding "american" and "foreign" cars, why do we see so many foreign cars on the road? Why are american car companies in trouble?

Maybe, just maybe, if the american car companies knew how to make a car that was RELIABLE, more people would consider buying american made vehicles. Obviously people dont want to buy them..and why would anyone in their right mind want to buy one of their cars when they proved that they are not financially viable and a drain on the economy.

Submitted by Anonymous on December 5, 2008 - 1:25pm.

FYI: Chrysler Financial just surprised their employees with bonuses ranging from $1500 to $3000. Seems odd considering these companies are struggling...maybe trying to offload some cash to make their bailout bid more desperate looking? I am not a big fan of my tax dollars being used to preserve jobs of people who refuse to give up any of the ridiculous pay/benefits the union negotiated for them. Why can't the workers take pay/benefit cuts like the rest of us when our companies struggle. Consider, if the 300,000 GM employees took a $1 pay cut...this would amount to over $600 million a year in cost savings for the company..considering the average pay of auto workers is $28 an hour..I think this is a small concession for them to make...how about a $5 hourly pay cut..all the sudden over $3 billion a year cut from costs!! INSTEAD OF THEM COMING TO THE TAXPAYERS AND ASKING US TO PAY THE INFLATED WAGES FOR GREEDY UNION WORKERS, HOW ABOUT TAKING ON THE UNION SINCE THEY ARE FOR THE MOST PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR CURRENT SITUATION!

Submitted by Anonymous on December 5, 2008 - 1:21pm.

Would be nice to run a screw gun for $45/ hr. How is it that you can drop out of high school and make 50K a year at Ford, but can't get a 40k a year job with a 4 year college degree and continued education? The UAW's need to step away from the crack pipe with these rediculous benifits and compensations.
Any to the American car buyer...I will put my Tacoma up against any Ford, GM, or Chrysler/Dodge and not only spend less in repairs, but spend less in gas and have a higher resale value when it's all over.

Submitted by Anonymous on December 5, 2008 - 11:17am.

You are right on. Where is the financial institutions plan for becoming financially respnsible?. How many good jobs do the financial institutions provide, other than to their high paid executives?.
History says the south lost the Civil War because they had no industry. This whole country is headed the same way. Much of what we need is on back-order because it is made in foreign countries and they really don't care about us.
We need to get smart before it is too late and protect Americans and American interests. We have worked hard to make this country what it is. We deserve a helping hand.
Also, a word about foreign vs American automobiles. My husband and I have never owned a foreign car and never will. We have owned pick-ups and SUVs as well as automobiles. We have put 2,500,000 miles on pick-ups with little repairs. The gas mileage is not much out of line with the foreign counterparts. We live in America, we earned our money in America. We were American workers and we choose to support American workers as every other American worker should.

Submitted by Anonymous on December 5, 2008 - 6:11am.

I saw yesterday where Ford in Claycamo, Mo. was shifting its manufactruing emphesis from the smaller fuel efficient cars back to the F-150. This of course is because of increased sales due to lower fuel prices. Now what happens when fuel prices go back up because the big 3 are creating even more of a fuel demand by emphasising less fuel efficient vehicles again? They'll want another bailout because they went down the same old path. No bailout!

Submitted by Anonymous on December 5, 2008 - 12:41am.

Here my bias : My relative makes a living from Ford - has for 25 years - 6 days a week - 70 hours a week - built a business from the pavement up in another state. Ten employees have health insurance and thier families also. They work 40+. They are more than 10% of the commerce area of the hub town they are in.
I am an employee specialist. Do not think for one minute that a manufacturing job in the United States is a cush deal. It is inflamed joints, knee surgery, back problems, carpal tunnel, and if you are not a white collar worker - it is the best deal in this country. Unless you are white collar and in an office like me - you would LOVE to work 40 hours a week for pay you can buy a house with, insure your kids with, educate them with.
I have a Ford - not because my family depends on Ford. Because my first Maverick as was a 225,000 mile car, the Fairlane second hand was a 120,000 miler, the Escort was a 130,000 miler and this one is 90,000. My Windstar is running just fine at 60,000. I buy American because I take care of what I buy, I never had a Ford family deal until the last car - I just bought the right thing at the right time of year with the right credit.
I did have two other cars ( American - but not as happy an experiance )
This country has millions of persons with less than desirable academics for white collar careers for many reasons - some of which are no ones fault - they just happen. No manufacturing and no union means no chance for them to be successful.
Whatever you think is right ( consider these thoughts, of course ) - let your rep in Washington know your conclusions, please.
Don't forget if you don't believe in the "bail out" to ask for some health insurance coverage for the outcome.

Submitted by Anonymous on December 4, 2008 - 10:48pm.

It is amazing to me that Congress handed out trillions of dollars to the people that caused our current recession in the first place. But when three companies who helped create the middle class that Obama and McCain couldn't shut up about want a fraction of a percent of that, we get up in arms and they are denied the money.

I think Chapter 11 is the way for Ford and GM to save themselves; Chrysler is beyond repair. But the damage Chapter 11 will cause this country, already in the midst of a nasty recession, is huge. 1 in 10 people has a job tied to those three companies - hope they can all find new high-paying jobs quick.

Submitted by Anonymous on December 4, 2008 - 8:49pm.

Would you invest in GM, Ford or Chrysler? I don't think so. I know I wouldn't and yet here goes the gov't to take your money and mine to invest in the Big Three.

There is only one reason to value a company - for the product it makes. If the American people valued the products of the Big 3, they would not have been losing market share for years.

The outlook for the three is not good. The best that could happen would be for the parts of each company that make economic sense to be bought by other, stronger car manufacturers.

It isn't the business of gov't to prop up businesses, or to provide job programs. It is the job of gov't to provide the public with those things that the public cannot provide for itself. Creative destruction is part of capitalism and an integral part of thriving business. From the ashes of these grossly overweight, tottering car companies will come something better in the future.

Submitted by Anonymous on December 4, 2008 - 6:10pm.

Double Standards, huh? It amazes me the friends that tell me how disgusting it is to help the automakers. Don't give a rats ass that we've given OVER EIGHT TRILLION DOLLARS to Wall Street and their banker buddies.

Submitted by Anonymous on December 4, 2008 - 5:02pm.

It's a tough situation. On one (big) hand, I say let them fail. The American auto industry had their chance in backing fuel-efficient, sustainable vehicles but chose to focus production on the big gas-guzzler, muscle-cars to make a quick buck instead. On the other hand, it's not like the factory worker, the human resources rep, the driver, the labors ever had a say in terms of the company's direction. It's a shame for them to be punished at the expense of a greedy few.

If the bailout goes through, the key to making it effective are provisions, strict provisions, and many provisions. I want budget outlines, production deadlines and accountability to the adherence of the two and liability for any inadherence of either. The execs pleaded that they'll even only work for a salary of $1. Fine, but tell (and show) me you'll also sacrifice all your bonuses so our taxpayer money doesn't go through any backdoor income into your pockets.

Submitted by Anonymous on December 4, 2008 - 4:01pm.

By stepping outside of the authority granted to them by the Constitution, meddling in private industry, and in a large part causing the economic problems that have adversely affected the domestic auto industry, the federal and state governments have made every taxpayer liable should they fail. This money should be in the form of a settlement instead of a loan.

By doing the same thing in the banking industry, they have also made us liable for bank failures. By then supporting the banks in their illegal and predatory loan activities the government is complicit and we are now liable to every home owner who's property is foreclosed on and every business that has been forced to close because of banking practices.

http://ewebsmith.com/gov/WrongBusiness.html

Submitted by Anonymous on December 4, 2008 - 3:58pm.

We are not asking for a bail out like AIG got we plan on paying ours back.Not only union at fault so is the goverment,sure lets buy a toyota or honda and send money back to other countrys,Lets stop letting them bring their goods in this country and go back to American Made in this country only, It's time the US takes care of the US frist.As far as cars being built here heck why not free land taxs brake.Do we american get taxs brakes or land if we want to open our own business, nope lets help every one else frist, CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.

Submitted by Anonymous on December 4, 2008 - 3:29pm.

I couldn't agree more with the "As much as it pains me to" poster. These unions have fought for years and taken, taken, taken, from the auto companies. Not to protect the workers in the industry, but for their own job security! They've turned the average, hard-working American into a lazy, self-centered cry baby who whines if he get written up for breaking the rules or working unsafely. Unions are LONG past their usefulness. Let them strike and let the automakers bring in non-union labor to do the jobs for a lower wage.
PS...When I built my house, I used all non-union labor! =)
-Fletch

Submitted by Anonymous on December 4, 2008 - 2:08pm.

I agree and I think most Americans do also. I feel that it is time that the American people take back control of this country and the economy. We control things by what we spend and even more so by what we don't spend. For many years now I have listned to auto dealers and bankers tell us what vehicles are worth and the truth is they are only worth what we are willing to pay for them. I say let them fail as they have failed many American people that come upon hard times.

Submitted by Anonymous on December 4, 2008 - 1:47pm.

8 1/2 TRILLION for Wall Street is the latest tally that I've seen, 7 TRILLION was a week or so ago!

Submitted by Anonymous on December 4, 2008 - 1:45pm.

As much as it pains me to say this, knowing how many americans would be out of job, I say let them fail. For three main reasons. One it will do the higher ups in this country good to learn a few lessons. Like quit spending money on frivolous things. And maybe you should be paying so much in salaries to people who really don't do anything anyway. Second reason we live in a capatalist society, meaning that if you want to start a business, you need good planning, good management, and a 'good' that everyone wants and or needs. So if you fail, then you fail, because you didn't follow sound business structure plans. Thirdly and possibly the biggest reason these three should not get the money, is the UAW. Now I am a supporter of what the unions USED to stand for, however, they have broken the system and are way passed the need for them anymore. They are in my personal opinion as much to do with what is wrong in this country as the poloticians. It has gotten out of hand. I'll give an example using the automakers. Did you know that when you purchase a GM vehicle you pay 2500 per car/truck to pay for existing retired previous employees? Then you pay 1500 for the upcoming generation of retired employees, then you pay an addtional 2000 for their benenfits? I don't know about you but that seems pretty rediculous. Thats 6000 per car/truck they sell here in the USA that pays just for that stuff. Additionaly, I am relatively sure that a guy that stands in place all day and turns one specific bolt and nothing else for the day really doesnt deserve to be paid 60k a year for that job.

So I say let the 3 fail and fail now. Then if any of them have any brains they will copy the business model that toyota and nissan have brought to their manufacturing plants here in america and restart their business, and tell the UAW to take a flying F***. If they want to survive, that is really the only way I see them doing it. Not to mention, It is not my job as a taxpayer to save them, they either need to save themselves or fail like they should.


User login

Hire Me!

Testing the job market? Dollars & Sense has pulled together some resources to help you through these rough times.

Jobstart

These Companies Are Currently Hiring

Job Clubs

Click here for job transition support groups.

Kansas City Metro Networking Job Club

Job Club link

Dollars & Sense is offering a free forum for job seekers through a partnership with the Kansas City Metro Networking Job Club. Check out job openings, tout your talents and post your resumes. Just register on the networking site and check out the resources.

How I Got the Job

  • Autumn WernerAutumn WernerThe job: Surveillance analyst
    The employer: KeyBank Real Estate Capital, in Kansas City, is a division of Cleveland-based KeyBank. KeyBank Real Estate is a full-service real estate finance organization operating in 32 major U.S. markets in 20 states.


Personal Finance Center


Dollars & Sense TV




Navigation

Free Financial Advice

4/9/09

Question:

BRB asks

Who do I talk to for financial advice that does not involve them trying to sell me something? We are 60 and 59, have a 200,000 annuity, are 60-70,000 credit card debt, have a house that is half paid for,own a condo in fl that is not paying for itself, have a good credit rating, not behind on anything, not facing foreclosure, wife on disability, husband still working, Want to pay off credit cards, but don't know how. Should we use part of annuity? I just want to know who to ask for help. Thanks

Answer:

It looks like you would be well served by a comprehensive financial plan which would address your concerns and give you a clear picture of where you are at financially. Financial advisors are paid in two different ways. Some receive commissions for the products they sell you. There are also fee only financial planners who work for you for a set fee and sell no products. In their case you know exactly how much it will cost you up front. It would also be preferable to use a financial planner who is a Certified Financial Planner.

Best Regards,
G. Douglas Dunham

READ MORE...

Submitted by FPA on April 9, 2009 - 2:00pm.
| 1 comment

Recent comments